[OPENING MUSIC]

00:00:00 Alex VO: The Build is presented by Square. Opening your first restaurant is a one of a kind challenge. Building the systems, team and infrastructure to grow beyond is another. This season we're going beyond the basics and into Restaurant 201, following what it really takes to scale a restaurant concept without losing the hospitality, culture and food that made it special in the first place. Square supports businesses at every stage with connected tools designed to help restaurant owners run their operations, understand their business, and keep growing. This is The Build: Season Three, presented by Square.

00:00:46 Jenny VO: You’re listening to The Build: A show about what it really takes to open a restaurant.

[THEME MUSIC]

00:00:54 Jenny VO: Restaurant groups can't scale without people, and at the heart of the season is a story about the partnership between Gio Tania and chef Carlos. Carlos has wanted to open a restaurant since he was a kid. Fulfilling that dream took him from a three Michelin star kitchen in Spain to McDonald's in Chicago and eventually to New York. With three hundred dollars in his pocket, now he's opening El Camaron Peludo with Gio and Tania.

00:01:16 Alex VO: Today, we're getting to know Carlos and talking about what it means to become partners. Who does what, how the money works, and how to know whether you can tell your friend their Spanish tapas idea has gone a little too far.

00:01:30 Jenny: So today we're talking about what it looks like to be inside the restaurant business and how Gio, Tania, and Carlos are building a partnership where everybody knows their lane, and even so much so that Carlos had to go and get the beer taps installed before we could start talking today at nine o'clock this morning.

00:01:49 Alex: Yeah. Yeah. Before we jump into too much of the scripted questions that we have for you, tell us where we are with El Cama… Cameron Peludo this week.

00:01:59 Gio: Sure. I mean, we are, I would say probably seventy percent of the build out the last bit. It's a bit complicated because it's more about the little details, which involves like decision making in terms of like what the right fixtures will be, the furniture, let's say all the bulk part in terms of like the space, the system of the space, they're already installed. But yeah, we're going to have to just go ahead and like, you know, choose the right paint, the right stools, the working station that we want to have for like, you know, the plates and, you know, fill out water and things like that. So it's interesting and it's just probably going to be hopefully a month from now that we might be able to open at least self-opening. But in the meantime, we're going to have to as soon as we can start gathering people there, we would like to just start bringing friends and cook in the space. I think that's part of the what we want to do, at least Carlos and I, we really just want to. So far we only been cooking in our apartments and. And I feel like now is the time to actually start cooking in the kitchen.

00:03:19 Alex: Feel the flow of the space and correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that there was your finishing contractor maybe now is too busy to be able to work with you for this. So there's going to be a little bit of a gear change at the end. Tell me about that.

00:03:37 Gio: Yeah, I mean, we have we've been working with, um two contractors and for this last bit, we want to work with someone that I, that we feel has a little more of that profile of like.

00:03:53 Tania: Attention to detail and good taste.

00:03:56 Gio: But he's really busy right now, and he told us so on five days ago that we met with him in the space. So at this point, right now, we're just trying to push him and see if it's realistic for him. Um, sort of like the deadline that we have like a month from now. Okay. Uh, so we're, we're trying to figure that out with him first before making any other decisions.

00:04:21 Alex: The preference is to stay with him, maybe wait a little bit if you have to.

00:04:27 Gio: We can wait a little bit, but not too much.

00:04:29 Alex: Right.

00:04:30 Carlos: We're already going to start paying rent tomorrow.

00:04:34 Tania: Fun.

00:04:36 Gio: Oh, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that.

00:04:39 Jenny: Last time we talked. You were still waiting for the license, but we had an in at the mayor's office that helped with Socceria. So are we planning to sort of tap into to that again for Peludo, or are we, are we just waiting and seeing here?

00:04:53 Carlos: I mean, I feel like literally last time we talked, we emailed a lawyer and she answered us yesterday. So she took like a week to answer that she was gonna check. So we're kind of like, we don't really know yet.

00:05:08 Alex: Check the status.

00:05:09 Tania: Yeah.

00:05:10 Gio: She's the status. Yeah. It seems like it's just in the process of, like, being approved by the SLA. It's just that.

00:05:16 Tania: But yeah, definitely, definitely in Socceria, it was faster probably because of that event that I talked about last time.

00:05:24 Alex: But in worst case, you do the event licenses or the one day licenses for a little while, right?

00:05:28 Gio: In Socceria, we apply for.

00:05:30 Alex: But can you do that at Peludo also?

00:05:32 Gio: Well, we'll just wait.

00:05:33 Alex: You'll wait.

00:05:33 Tania: Yeah, I feel like I mean, it's not super cheap. So it depends. Yeah. I mean, for Socceria it made sense because.

00:05:42 Alex: Socceria is big enough to pay.

00:05:43 Tania: It's super big. Yeah.

00:05:45 Jenny: Can you share with us what does that cost look like? Just so like for the one day.

00:05:51 Tania: Event for only the lawyer.

00:05:53 Gio: It was per day. It was about two thousand two hundred.

00:05:57 Alex: And that's flat. Whether you have eight seats or eight hundred seats. Yeah. Interesting. So it makes sense for Socceria, but not for Peludo.

00:06:06 Jenny: And then in terms of like hiring the new contractor. So I know last time we talked, we had there's a, there's, there's sort of a deadline right at the end of we really wanted to open by seven twenty nine because then Carlos gets married and goes on his honeymoon. So the following week.

00:06:25 Alex: Carlos is getting married either way, I think.

00:06:27 Jenny: Carlos is getting married either way,

00:06:28 Tania: He's gonna postpone.

00:06:31 Alex: Do we need to patch in, uh, Kelsey?

00:06:35 Jenny: Right, right. So what does that look like in terms of onboarding the new contractor and timeline? Are we still feeling good about seven twenty nine given the contractor shift now and not having to literally.

00:06:47 Gio: I mean, we're still technically a month away. Yeah, they're.

00:06:51 Alex: Still got time.

00:06:51 Gio: So we're gonna give it a try.

00:06:54 Tania: Exactly.

00:06:54 Jenny: And having to have the new contractor come with the finishing details. What does that look like for budget? Does that change budget or are we still on budget or we're just like at the fuck it stage?

00:07:07 Alex: If I mean, the goal is to have the contractor and just squeeze them in and nothing changes, right? It's just a matter of getting them in. Yeah.

00:07:13 Tania: I mean, yeah.

00:07:14 Alex: If you had to go to.

00:07:15 Tania: If things that need to be done, you know, like it could be the case of comparing prices with someone else. I feel like that's also something you do with more time. No. So I, I mean, my mindset is maybe, you know, obviously negotiate and try to make an arrangement. If there's any flexibility of like paying a, maybe not at the beginning or the one hundred percent, but something like he's also like a good friend. So it could be the case that he helped us in that. Hopefully.

00:07:50 Gio: But answer your question. I feel like we probably will end up being around 50K above of what we predicted. Yeah.

00:08:01 Alex: But you were relatively conservative with budget initially. You feel like.

00:08:05 Gio: Yeah. I mean, I don't know if conservative, but we one of the reasons we took the space was, um, we projected that the investment wasn't going to be super high because basically we changed everything on the space, but the kitchen, we literally haven't touched the kitchen is ready to go. So we didn't have to spend anything on equipment or installations on the kitchen, which is a lot usually. And at the beginning we projected it to be one hundred and fifty K for the whole project. But now considering furniture and things that can get a little expensive. I think we might be a little over that for about fifty. And we want to make it super nice. That's the thing. I feel like the way sort of like the design of the space came to be is just a marble piece that we bought. It was like eight thousand dollars. And those costs, we didn't plan them those to be that high, but we decided to go because there are certain look that we are looking to have in the space and like prettiness and like comfortability and all that and where we want to make that extra.

00:09:28 Alex: And over the term of your lease, which have we done? Have we even asked what the term of the lease is? How long do you have it?

00:09:34 Gio: We have a ten, ten plus five plus five.

00:09:37 Alex: So fifteen years, that extra fifty grand on finishing details will, yeah, Get gets…

00:09:44 Gio: Not too bad.

00:09:44 Alex: …very small, right? Yeah. So that's I think it's the right decision there for sure.

00:09:49 Gio: Yeah. And I mean, and honestly, I mean, if we're talking about this part of the, our own comfort in making this decision is because of the other restaurants that we have. Right? Yeah.

00:10:04 Alex: That is, do you think you would do it differently if you didn't have.

00:10:07 Gio: For sure. The other. Absolutely. It will be like, no, that's the budget and that's it.

00:10:12 Alex: Yeah. Got it.

00:10:13 Tania: Yeah. I think I talk about that last time too. Mhm.

00:10:18 Jenny: I'm doing it from the other from the cash flow, from the other businesses, which is smart. And to Alex's point, it's like, yeah, you have to amortize the increased cost over the term of the lease. And you have fifteen years. It seems like fifty grand over fifteen years is nothing. So, um, yeah, definitely worth it.

00:10:34 Alex VO: There's a lot happening at Peludo, but we wanted to spend some time with the person who'll be running the kitchen and overseeing the day to day. We've heard how Gio and Tania got here. Carlos has his own story, and understanding that story makes this partnership mean a whole lot more.

00:10:47 Jenny: Tell us about that. How did you guys actually meet each other first? Was it a friendship? Was it always sort of like a business conversation? What came first?

00:10:57 Carlos: For my part, I really been a huge fan of Takeda Ramirez since I started. Um, like I was there right after they opened. Um, I loved their tacos and everything they do. So I started just.

00:11:17 Tania: Sliding into the DMs.

00:11:20 Carlos: Yeah, I started being a groupie. Uh, I feel like I saw it was talking to Yosvany for years. And then did you like, were you.

00:11:33 Alex: Were you courting from the beginning or you just thought what they were doing was cool and you wanted to like.

00:11:38 Carlos: Yeah, I mean, I think as a Mexican, I was like, yeah, we've been waiting for this tacos forever. They are finally doing it right. And it happens that I moved two blocks away from the taqueria. So I was just like, I just love tacos. Ramirez. I still do. And I think that was really, for me, a reason to start connecting to them. I didn't expect it at all to open anything with Antonia, but things kind of like turned this way, and I definitely feel super lucky we're doing this together. I definitely wanted to do something with like, Mexican people. I think that was very important for me.

00:12:26 Jenny: Carlos, tell us a little bit about because we captured a lot of like, you know, how Gio and Tania got into restaurants and their career. But I don't think we've talked about like Carlos's evolution as a chef and your career that brought you up to this point. If you just want to give us some of your highlights there.

00:12:42 Carlos: Yeah. I mean, it's not much. I've been cooking the past twenty years. Um.

00:12:48 Jenny: Not much. Just a couple decades.

00:12:51 Carlos: Yeah. I mean, I started cooking when I was like, six. I went to my first culinary school when I was thirteen. Then after high school, I went to culinary arts degree in Mexico City. Then I went to work on a three Michelin star in San Sebastian. Then I moved back to Baja to live in a vineyard. Then I moved to America. Not McDonald's.

00:13:18 Jenny: Perfect.

00:13:18 Carlos: Then I moved to New York. I.

00:13:23 Alex: This is an interesting story that I've heard on on running adventures, but McDonald's was in randomly like North Dakota or something. Is that right? Well, no.

00:13:33 Carlos: McDonald's. McDonald's was in Chicago.

00:13:35 Alex: And that was the only job you could get because you.

00:13:37 Carlos: I was not speaking English and I have no papers. And that was my first job after working at three Michelin star. I went to McDonald's.

00:13:47 Alex: How was that? How was that adaptation challenging? Did you bring your your tweezers to McDonald's? And they were like.

00:13:53 Carlos: Oh my God.

00:13:54 Alex: What.

00:13:54 Carlos: Are you doing? Like, I almost moved back to Mexico. It was really like.

00:13:58 Alex: What am I doing? What am I doing here? Yeah. What was next after McDonald's? Sorry to interrupt.

00:14:02 Carlos: I went to South Dakota. I work on a farm to table restaurant for a chef that I met in San Sebastian. It was a cool experience because it was like an actual farm to table. Like, we will get full animals, cut them in parts. He was kind of like doing like French American food. So it was a nice introduction to the kitchen in America. And then I always wanted to come to New York, so I moved to New York. Um, I was a little bit homeless for a second. Moving in here as I move with like three hundred dollars. The first restaurant that hired me, I spent a few nights staying there. I had nowhere to live. But then I started making Chinese food, kind of move on into a more Chinese restaurant. My last job in restaurants was at Noma. What's the oldest dim sum parlor in New York? It's over one hundred years, and I was their culinary director for almost seven years. And then private chef. And like another little things, you know, like food styling. I feel like in New York, you need to do. You need to do everything. So and then collapse a lot of cool things with friends that kind of like turned me into Gio and Tania to open this business.

00:15:37 Jenny: From Michelin stars to McDonald's to culinary director to private chef to restaurateur and chef partner.

00:15:46 Alex: Did you always know you wanted to open a restaurant at some point? I mean, I feel like that.

00:15:50 Carlos: Was my dream since I was a kid. This is like, literally my dream.

00:15:56 Alex: And I feel like you were actively looking for the right partners in the last couple years, right?

00:16:02 Carlos: Yep. I was talking to a few. So I feel like I've been super lucky in the past ten years. I have met so many really good friends that have business here in New York. And I definitely was looking for the right partner. I wanted to work with people that could like teach me more about like the having a business, having a successful restaurant, being a good boss. And then I was really like really close with a few friends to almost open something, but always something happened. But then when the opportunity opened up with Gio and Tania, I was kind of like, all for it. Like, I just knew that was what I wanted to do.

00:16:53 Alex: And that happened before the space or did the space happen after you guys decided to work together?

00:17:00 Carlos: That was before the space we. So pretty much, I think the way that kind of like really started getting more serious in a way is like, um, Tania was away. I came over to Gio's. We were making our chili. It was super good. Like chili was like amazing. I was chilling and I was like, maybe we should open on something like this. And Giovanni was like, I've been wanting to do this. And we just started talking. And after that, I feel like a week after when Tania came back, I invited them over and I cooked for them one dish in my tiny kitchen. Drink some wine and I feel like that's when they. Or at least I was like, I need to pitch this more to them because I knew they have a few things going on and like, I knew they didn't need it to do this right now, but I also knew they wanted to do it. So I kind of wanted to be serious about it. And from there, we just started looking at spaces. We looked spaces for a few months until we run into our little baby in Cornelia.

00:18:18 Gio: He didn't hit us at the first time, remember?

00:18:21 Alex: I was gonna say, is this can you recount? Is that.

00:18:24 Gio: Yeah, yeah, I remember when we look at the Cornelius space, we were like, um, sure, in a way, because you will see the space, but it's really narrow. And especially for me, coming from the spaces that we like for the taquerias that we want the opposite. We want them to be a square because of the kitchen. It needs to be in the front.

00:18:48 Alex: Why exactly?

00:18:50 Gio: Because it's most of the spaces in New York. They're narrow because the kitchen is in the back.

00:18:56 Alex: Are you like the kitchen?

00:18:58 Gio: You know, you have your your patron's area in the front and you know, your dining room. But we like the space to be all it's all the dining room and the kitchen is together. And to configure that in a narrow space is it's almost impossible. But I originally actually saw the space because not knowing the space, but a real estate agent wanted to show me for another taqueria and I was okay. But when I saw that it wasn't going to work for the taqueria because he's also an electric kitchen. I talked to Carlos and I say, I think we need to come and take a look to this space because it doesn't work for a taqueria, but it might be perfect for becoming an peludo.

[AD BREAK]

00:19:46 Alex VO: Last season, we watched Rasheeda build Ramen by Ra around two very different experiences an intimate chef's counter and a fast moving takeout window. Square helps her manage both while also connecting online orders, in-person sales, merchandise and guest information. That means Rasheeda can recognize the customer who ordered ramen last week and bought a shirt two weeks ago. It's tech helping a small business feel even more personal. The Build is presented by Square. Learn more at square.com.

Tell us about your perspective on the partnership. At what point did in fact, that dinner where he invited you over, was that the moment where you were like, okay, this, should we do this? Did you guys go home, Tonya and Jio and talk about it?

00:20:29 Tania: Yeah, I remember it was a walk that we had by Domino Park, but I don't remember if that was before or after you invited us to your apartment, that we were just talking more seriously about that. Remember?

00:20:43 Gio: I do.

00:20:45 Tania: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just walking and like, just talking and talking about it. But I feel like, I mean, we did have already a couple projects kind of going on, but just the seafood part of this idea was just like something very exciting for us. And like Carlos was saying just something that we wanted to do as well. So I just, yeah, feel like it was a connection that happened really fast and it made sense.

00:21:15 Gio: It was also honestly like something like, I got the decision, you know, you feel like when things came by and we kept hanging out and we just kept cooking together and talk about this project, but it was just making sense for me at least. I think my relationship with Carlos hits a lot of based on on respect and mutual admiration, and we're both sort of like, we see the picture in a way in a, in sort of like in the same way. And we, I remember when we were navigating this project, you changed your mind of things sometimes, you know, like, and, and when I was talking to Carlos Santana about like these changes of like, it's more like this, or it needs to be more of this kind of place or like, blah, blah, blah. And I, and I feel like having the, the freedom, but also the connection to make those changes together and to kind of like the three of us being on the same page of understanding where this ship will travel and to not be scared of like changing your mind for things was really important for me to make sure that this can work, you know, to actually, okay, this we make a trip to Mexico with Kelsey and Tania and Carlos and I, and that was like our honeymoon in a way of like, this is work. There's chemistry, there's like, there's all these factors that are really important for, for you to make a partnership with someone. And, and it felt that way. And we had a fucking blast.

00:22:53 Carlos: Yeah. For sure. I mean, then we went to Europe and we had that second honeymoon. Uh, but yeah, I mean, definitely like one hundred percent. I think part of like why maybe things have moved so quick on both sides is like, I obviously like admire and respect so much about Tania and you have done, but I also love them, you know, like, I think as the three of us Mexican, we have so many things in common. We see so many. Like we grew up kind of like the same time in Mexico. So we have a, I think, a vision of things that are very similar and a very similar background. And Giovanni and me are both from Mexico City from like kind of like a very similar area, just like we are just like connected in so many ways. And I personally, for me, that was like, maybe my biggest motivation to push this partnership is like, I knew I wanted to do something, but when it became, it was not something with two Mexican people that I already loved what they're doing. I was like, I need to make this happen.

00:24:01 Gio: Also, I remember one one day that we were actually having a meeting here, the three of us. And I think that was right after Europe when we came back. And I feel like probably Europe was, uh, I don't know, it, it always sort of like changed me in a way or made me realize things from Mexico growing up that I thought they were Mexican costumes, but they're actually very European, uh, culture, uh, wise. And, um, I remember I had a different thing in mind for Peludo at that point. He and Carlos and Tania were like, chill, relax, bro.

00:24:45 Tania: You're not Spanish, you're Mexican.

00:24:51 Carlos: The Cervantes from Giovanni came out very strongly after.

00:24:55 Gio: I was really glad that kind of like, put me back on track. Because I almost wanted to open a Spanish tapas place. You know?

00:25:05 Alex: Yeah, I feel like I remember you talking about this. Yeah, well, that's good though, that you have balance and that you guys, it sounds like you're willing to listen to each other. Have there been disagreements that you've had to like, work through at all yet?

00:25:19 Tania: Uh. I feel like that was the biggest one. I was like, I had to be like, okay, this is not it, you know? But also…

00:25:30 Alex: Did you take the lead there, Tania, or was that or both of you guys?

00:25:33 Tania: I feel like Carlos was a little more like just listening.

00:25:36 Carlos: You know, I wasn't sure how I felt about it. I definitely like, I mean, I honestly like in a lot of things, I'm just letting Tania and you to take the lead because I recently partnered with them is because I know they have the experience and like, I trust their decisions. And obviously I was we were just coming back from Madrid and I, like you and me, have a conversation literally in the park in Madrid about this idea of like, maybe making it more Spanish. And I was like listening. I think in a way it makes sense. I love that kind of style of restaurants too, or like bars or like tavernas. But once we were talking, the three of us and Tania kind of pushed back. I was like, okay, yeah. I think Tania's right, like, we should push back on this. It's gonna be so weird to the three of us up in a Spanish restaurant.

00:26:29 Gio: Yeah.

00:26:30 Carlos: But it was also kind of a fun meeting, to be honest.

00:26:34 Jenny: Are you intentionally keeping that identity very taco free at Peludo to make sure that it has its own identity?

00:26:41 Gio: Probably not intentionally. I feel like we we wanted it to see the food and design the menu without really thinking more of a freedom point of like not thinking about tacos necessarily, but tacos obviously ended up being part of the menu, but it's definitely not the main part of the menu. And so it just didn't make sense to have the tacos. I think that we have actually two, but like we were happy with them, but it's definitely not based on that. So it's not a taqueria. It's more of a it's a seafood wine bar in any case, but with Mexican food and with some European influences.

00:27:23 Jenny VO: Finding and working with partners is essential to a successful business. But both can be a challenge. No one knows this better than Roni Mazumdar and chef Chintan Pandya, founders of Unapologetic Foods in New York City. They've worked together on Sima Aadha Dhamaka and several other bold regional Indian cuisine concepts across the city. We talked with the pair to get their take on how to find and nurture partnerships successfully. Here's Chintan.

00:27:48 Chintan: So, you know, you have a very unique case where two people, two chef partners in the company, one who was from outside, which is Chef Vijay and then Eric. Not many people know was the first employee of our company. Oh, wow. Ingrown talent. He was employee number zero zero one. And I think what happened is that we met Vijay in twenty twenty. In fact, he was working at a restaurant in SF, or we had a dinner at his restaurant and had a chat. And then he contacted us when he was looking for a move. And then we got him over here. Somehow we felt that there was a lot of alignment in our idea vision. We had not seen him cooking till that time. We had just tasted food in his restaurant. But you know, I always say that if somebody has done something for so many years, cooking is like he has already done it. Like you, you're not going to judge him for his cooking. But what mattered more was that very curious human being who's very curiosity. He had that conviction that he can do something good, was willing to change, was willing to move across from West Coast to East Coast just on the idea and the belief that we'll develop something and we'll keep on working on it. And I think that's where the entire story started. And we kept on working. And now he's the rock star of this city, you understand? And then Chef Eric was our first employee. One of the most hardest working human beings you will find, actually is one of the most hardest working human beings you'll like. I always thought that I'm a very hard working human being. Till the time I found Tarek, he's more hard working than me. So I'm very jealous of him, actually. And, you know, like, very focused guy. And there have been times where, you know, he worked so hard with me for everything. But I felt at some point all the accolades and everything that was coming was coming to me actually, and not going to him, which I felt we as a company. Me and Ronnie felt was very, um, it was sort of disservice to his talent. And I said, we somehow have to, you know, like, uh, get him out there, get his talent, be known to people. And that's how Ronnie came up with the idea that, you know what, what if we do a Filipino restaurant for him? And, um, I spoke to him and he says, that's my dream. And I said, what kind of Filipino restaurant you want? And he says, I want an unapologetically Filipino restaurant. And I think that's where Ronnie picked up the idea. And then we started working with him. We travelled with him to Philippines and, you know, it just kept on working. And, you know, his hard work is paying off now. So I always say that it's not about that person alone. It's also about that. Is he willing to be part of this company? Is he willing to be part of this DNA? That's the most important part. You know, there are people we talk to are bigger superstars and phenomenal chefs or whatever they are, but somehow they just don't align. Like, I was actually doing an interview for a chef in the morning for a job. And I had to at some point say to him, you know, like, you are a phenomenally talented guy and know that you'll do phenomenal in your life. But I think your ideology and your philosophy for everything is stark opposite to what we as a company are. And if we work together, we are going to fail and we are going to fail miserably. So I don't think so. It's a right fit. I might look around something for you, but I don't think so. We are a right fit. I always say that, um, a skill and a talent can be nurtured. If I can cut ten onions today in one minute. If I do keep on doing it, I develop my skill. I might cut fifteen onions in a week's time. That is something that you'll develop over a period of time if you keep on trying. But the attitude behavior is something that you don't develop over a period of time. You're born with it. It's within you. You understand. And I think that is something that we as a company look very strongly and what that person is about, you know, there are interviews that we do for hours, two hours at least, like it keeps on going and we don't even talk about, uh, work at all. It's more about what is the idea of this person? What is the approach? What's the attitude? What is he thinking of? That's the most important part for us.

00:31:51 Roni: I think the true line is it's not that we're looking for conformists, we're looking for disruptors, but somewhere the values need to be aligned now. I think what we respect most is from a work ethic perspective rather than a superstar resume. We've all seen it. There's plenty of superstars that has fumbled and many things happen. So being a superstar, etc. on paper is a byproduct of the work ethic and what we focus on. We don't get carried away with the byproduct. We focus on what matters and who's this individual. When I was moving from California, we didn't even know it would. The place would be called Semma. We had no idea. So it wasn't like we have this formula for success and we have picked up the best talent. It was never about that. It was more so somewhere. We connected with him as an individual and it felt like the right kind of person. It felt like, you know what? He gets it. This is a person, you know, beyond take all the glitz, glamour, all the nonsense out. What's left is still a grind. And if the person can actually go through that day in and day out. Not every day is going to be sunny. And who is the person who has the resilience to keep going? And I think success you find inevitably through that path. It's not this magic pill, the silver bullet kind of a formula. So it was more so as a human being. You know, Clinton was like, no, I really feel like this is the right kind of a person. We would love to work with him. Chef Eric was someone who has, you know, again, grown through the company. Chef Neil, who joined us, he was working at a three Michelin starred restaurant, and he joined us on his own accord because there was a philosophical connect and how he pushes himself. Another chef, Vijay, who is now running Dhamaka. Each and every person within the organization brings in their own perspective. But what we also don't do. Our goal isn't to crush that perspective and say, my way or the highway. We think the best answer was when Chintan got to explore what a Indian canteen could have been. Sima is better because we got to explore what his vision was that was that. So it's never that we have the answers and you, you know, kind of follow that direction. It's more so a far more collaborative approach. And it takes a shit ton of effort and a scary path because to allow someone else to have a voice that's stronger than yours, it's a very scary path. In the beginning.

00:34:30 Alex: Are all your chefs, your leading chefs, or are they all partners as well? Are they or some partners? Some employees.

00:34:36 Roni: Uh, some partners, some employees. And they're, it's, it's a careful process and it takes time. And by time, it's not like some corporate world type. You need to put in three years to do it. It's not about that. It's a commitment. You have to show up. Chef Eric never asked for a partnership. I've never I've never had a conversation with Chef Eric about his compensation salary. Never had it. He never talks about it. He gave us that kind of trust where you want to go out of your way and say, how do I lift this person up? And I think that silence is the most powerful factor. Imagine if the conversation was another way. Imagine if we were negotiating back and forth. At some point, something would be like. Seems like he's just looking out for himself and I'm. We need to protect what the company is. But what if collectively, we just cared about one thing and the rest of it. It's our job to look out for each other. That's a team. So no. And I think it takes that time, commitment, energy. And when the time comes, we want to lift people up to the level that is far above us any day.

00:35:43 Chintan: And you also have to understand that, you know, like there are share partners in the company, but there are chefs in the company. But I just want to say that that the chefs also who are working. They literally work as if they own that restaurant. No, honestly, like even if you walk in today into any like, not because I'm saying this, I want you to just walk in and if the chef is there, he literally acts as if he's the owner of the restaurant. You know, like, like one of the chefs called me up yesterday. Uh, we don't do much of the takeout or anything. And he just called me up yesterday. He says, oh, I just want to let you know that there's a request for a takeout order for someone's private charter, and I'm going to do it. And I'm like, are you sure you want to do it? He says, no, this guy comes to us every month in his car. He flies down to New York. He eats at our restaurants, spends close to ten thousand dollars in a month in our restaurant. I just want to do it as a courtesy one time for him. But you see, he could have just said no guest itself and say, we don't do it. But he's going above and beyond to deliver that experience to that guest, you understand. And I think that's the kind of ownership that I that, you know, you sometimes, you know, there are times where you are sitting and you are thinking about something and you smile, you know, and I was on the call and I'm like, oh my God, that's what we want to have more people doing it. So it's the kind of ownership. And I also want to say that it's not only chefs, actually, it's also a lot of people who in our team, in front of the house or even in our corporate team who have been long enough, they have the same, uh, kind of a approach and attitude. And I always say that a lot of people do ask us that. How do you do it? As if it's, it's either they will have it or they won't have it. And one of the reasons we have been able to achieve a little bit of success is because of these kind of individuals who have actually thought about company bigger than themselves or us.

00:37:33 Alex VO: That was the team from New York City's Unapologetic Foods. I really love Ginseng's final remark about the partners in the group, thinking about the company bigger than the individuals. Now we'll rejoin our conversation with Gio, Tania, and Carlos and how they veered away from a brief detour into Spanish tapas and back into the menu. Identity of El Camaron Peludo.

00:37:52 Jenny: How do you guys balance decision making? Right. So this is a new there's three of you. That's a lot of partners. Is there somebody who has ultimate say over specific things? How is how is that flowing?

00:38:04 Tania: I would say the food is more related. Obviously Jill and Carlos, I do. I mean, yeah, we all kind of have our own opinions about everything, but I feel like it's just a conversation that it has never been complicated. You know, like to make the final decision. We kind of all voice our opinions. And then yeah, I don't know. I feel like it hasn't been that hard to get into a specific decision in terms of everything like food, wine, and how the space is going to look like the marble. You know, it was just very easy. It's been very easy to. Yeah, be in the same page, I would say.

00:38:48 Alex: What about as you move into day to day after July twenty ninth? What's your thoughts there? I mean, it seems like you, Tania, you and G are relatively clear that you're front and you're back, but now you've got another back. How do you guys split up the back of house. I would assume, since you have four other restaurants to now worry about that. Carlos takes a little bit of the lead at Peludo, but like how still, how do you balance having similar sort of inputs into the same restaurant?

00:39:17 Gio: Yeah. I mean, Carlos will be commanding the ship the day to day basis, and we all wanted to be that way. And I feel like after Peludo is up and running, I, I want to keep concentrating more on the overall brand. I would say, or the overall restaurant group. And, and, and, and sort of like, see how we want to go from there or if we want to just chill for a bit and just like keep reinforcing what we have. Probably that. Um, but I mean, like, I don't know, because Carlos and I will already have another two restaurant ideas that we want to do.

00:40:06 Alex: And what about you, Tony? Would somebody back you up on the front and Palmetto specifically while you.

00:40:11 Tania: Yeah. I mean, that's something that, you know, when you open a restaurant, you obviously have to define in the beginning. And that's why operational agreements also exist. But yeah, definitely. I mean, my side is a little bit broad because it's front of house, but I'm not going to be the manager. I'm just kind of like overseeing that everything. I'm very like, I like things to happen a certain way, a attention to detail in a way. So I just want to take care of like the vibe being right, the people being right. And I do a lot of also communications and PR, all of that. So that takes a lot of time. More like social media, etc., like how the space is presented to the outside world.

00:41:01 Alex: So you'll hire a manager for.

00:41:02 Tania: Yes. That's the plan for the day to day operation. Yes.

00:41:05 Jenny: Can I ask you guys also, Tania, you briefly mentioned as long as you have the right operating agreement. So the unsexy stuff that we all have to make sure is there. What does that look like for you all with Carlos?

00:41:16 Gio: Yeah. Carlos have to still sign it, but…

00:41:22 Jenny: Carlos!

00:41:23 Alex: Carlos! You’re three weeks out, buddy. Come on.

00:41:28 Gio: He actually he did sign it, but like. But it was like. I think he signed it with his mouse.

00:41:33 Carlos: Oh, yeah. I signed it literally with like, my finger.

00:41:36 Tania: Yeah. Just like, just physically.

00:41:40 Alex: The lawyers like, what the fuck is this?

00:41:42 Gio: And I said, no.Let's print this out and let's sign it all three.

00:41:44 Carlos: I'm the only one that has signed it.

00:41:45 Tania: Oh, shit.

00:41:50 Gio: Uh, we took a little while and it did. Um. It did. Took a couple of back and forth to, To negotiate the operating agreement between the three of us, probably at least we had at least two or three meetings of like, what about this? And Carlos also wanted to negotiate some particular spots that we, you know, changed and added and we negotiated with him. And yeah, it took a little time. But after a month that I guess that was on the conversation, we, we were all happy with what we have and we just need to sign it.

00:42:33 Jenny: And it was scarier to sign up for Carlos getting married or signing a partnership agreement. I feel like you have a lot of big commitments coming. I love it. Do you mind sharing? Like, what does that equity piece look like? I think that's also always really interesting to our listeners is like, you know, how do you become a chef with equity in a restaurant? Um, and within a restaurant group.

00:42:54 Gio: Me and Tania, we're a part of the restaurant group that we are building. We're, uh, putting all the investment on the space. We're making Carlos a partner with us. Um, and he has twenty percent equity on the space, plus obviously his, uh, salary as a chef of the space. And yeah, that's pretty much it.

00:43:21 Jenny: Twenty percent is a lot. I mean, that's amazing. And it should be that for the working chefs. And I feel like that's sort of an unheard of when there's a capital partner putting up this with the cash and then the working chef putting in like, for lack of a better word, sweat equity. So I'm curious to hear like what the vesting schedule looks like for that. And obviously it depends on signing the operational agreement first, I'm sure.

00:43:43 Gio: Yeah, I think Carlos gets fully vested after two and a half years. I believe it's been a while.

00:43:52 Carlos: I don't remember.

00:43:56 Gio: But Carlos gets fully twenty percent vested after that time, and after that, he can hire a chef and still be director of the kitchen. But, um, he can put his time in other projects. And, you know, we, that was one of the things that we ended up negotiating with him as we were moving through the operation agreement.

00:44:19 Jenny: And so at that point, he would give up his salary, but hire and be to be able to hire a chef to run the actual space day to day.

00:44:26 Gio: Yeah.

00:44:27 Jenny: Is there anything that you think makes a successful partnership or something that like you, you know, because you and Tania have been working in partnership together for years now as well. And so what what are some like pieces of advice you might have for listeners or things that you, they, you think they like?

00:44:45 Gio: I feel like I really appreciate the trust that Carlos has put in us and obviously the project because on the structure that me and Tania would already have, it could be a little bit intimidating, probably for someone to enter into a couple business, to put it that way. And I feel like you need to be really open and I guess have like trust and a little bit of gut decision to move forward with something like that. Because I feel like me and Tania, I, you know, we also have show and we, that's something very important for us to show to Carlos in this project that, um, he, he also has our trust and, and that we, when it comes to our business, we, me and Tania, it's not like we, we, we try to see things with a really cold mind and try to respect every everybody's place in decision making and, and the way we turn this project into. But I feel like that sometimes it's not easy when, you are entering to, you know, this sort of like scenario where it's already a couple that has other businesses. And but I feel like the perspective that Carlos. And now that I know him way more is that we truly see each other. I feel like when I see Carlos and I've been hanging out with him all this time, and it's not even that much. But what happens sometimes is like you, you start really looking into that person who that person really is. And, and I feel like we appreciate that of him. And I feel that he sees that also in me and Tania. And I feel like that's for a partnership. It's just, you know, you can get really organized and be really good with like agreements and things like that. But there's also like that this almost sort of like spiritual side of things that it's really, really important for something to work and to be able to navigate and see things with like vision and respect and all these other things that are really important for things to come to, you know, afloat. And, and, and I'm just happy that we, it felt that we, we, we truly found a great partner to do that.

00:47:10 Alex: I think that's really well said. I think like the Carlos is crying over here. Um it's true. I mean, I think that so often people get in their heads and hung up on the ten percent, fifteen percent, whatever the number, how much does it cost? How much is he going to do versus like, what? The way that you guys seem to be truly looking at it, which is that if you have this like sort of family environment that you're going to be able to have this restaurant for the full fifteen years of the lease, or perhaps more and more restaurants as well. So, um, that's really nice. Nice way to put it.

00:47:45 Jenny: And I think a perfect way to end everybody crying.

00:47:50 Alex: It's just Carlos.

00:47:54 Alex VO: It's very easy to feel the love and respect in the room amongst Gio, Tania and Carlos. Next time on The Build, join us for a special video version of the pod as we talk tech with the El Cameron Peludo team alongside James Schonzeit from square.

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00:48:09 Jenny VO: The Build is produced by me, Jenny Goodman, along with Alex McCrery and Sam Gerardi. Our audio engineer for this episode is Sam Gerardi. The show is produced in partnership with Square. You can learn more at Square.com. Be sure to subscribe to the build wherever you listen to podcasts, and follow along @TilitNYC for special behind the scenes moments and more from the show.

00:48:30 Alex VO: The Build is presented by Square. Supporting restaurant owners and small businesses with the tools they need to start, run and grow. To learn more, visit square dot com. And we'll see you next time on The Build.

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